I see. The most interesting idea you have there maxx is rendering with no texture...just a bump map. But besides throwing color, the texture obviously carries lots of other detail like wrinkles, etc. However, an invert of the texture (the bump map) would contain that detail too. I wonder what effect face_offs shaders would have under that setup...no texture, just a bump map, gray tones in nodes. I'm going to experiment tomorrow. ::::: Opera :::::