Papa, 1) are you using the latest release of the shader? I just got an email today saying there is a new version. 2) i assume you are using the default poser lights so others can somehow compare?? Because the default poser lights are awful on closeup portraits like this. i have found the finest results with the Shader under pure white lights. 3) can you talk about bump maps used above? is there a bump map in place on all the renders and how did you create the bump maps? Thank you for the work involved in this thread. :::: Opera :::::