yeah, i think i remember that now, Doug. Kemal has had this one for a long time, and he has a lot of other cool plug-ins. I get a bit overwhelmed when i have too many things to learn at once. I was ready for something new. I still have played with this yet but i'm looking forward to experimenting on this one image i need some help with. yeah, that's cool that you can customize them, Joe. might be nice to have something in the resource section about neat plug-ins that everyone uses with links on where to download them. maybe we already have that though but i don't recall seeing that.