Ok Mike. A little confused.. Can I assume that when you talk about desaturate your talking about the first pic? And yes I'll give that a try.. I think I do ok when I'm out taking photos as far as composition.. But when you take two or more of these photos and try to put them together it's a whole different way of seeing.. This kind of imput is a tremendus help.. Now when I look through my photos I look for a more realistic match.. I'm really having fun with this and would like to get it down.. I've been putting all these tips together so I'll have something for reference. So thanks.. I'll be trying out a few of those suggestions and I'll repost the results