That much I dont know, I haven't asked him for is as I have been playing around with it and havent put any real effort into it as such. He may have it still. I was just saying that when I got it there was a slightly tattered box with a cd and some blow in cards but thats it. I may have to bother him to look, he has a ton of boxed and unboxed crap in his office at home so it may be there or at his work. But as to your allurance of it being pirated software, no. I happen to be lucky enough to know someone that blows wads of cash on high priced software and when he tires of it, he asks me if I want it (or I ask him) usually because he has something "new" that has piqued his interest. Most of the stuff I do is mainly splash screen and other such items for companies and government entities so most of the things I need for work etc are company purchased, but for home use or to just play with I can usually find low end things at Ollies Bargain Outlet(dont know if that is just a US east coast store chain or not)or high endthings from single, overpaid friends that have a low attention span. But as much as I like the thought of the romance and intrigue associated with pirates and stolen booty, I am not one, as it could be detrimental to the day job and I quite frankly usually dont have the time to try and track down the warez, crackz, gamez, and anything else with a Z at the end. Lloyd Harnish