beryld, make room for me on the stupid bench too :-) Shonner, I don't see how it's a "sucker punch" to repeat what the president of CL stated repeatedly to the community, pretty much accurately sum up the roll out of P5 (fiasco is putting it mildly), and express a hope for a stable intro of P6. And just for the sake of accuracy in reporting here's the quote from Mr. Keohane... "by Curious Labs (Curious_Labs) on August 22, 2003 05:59 Poser 6 will focus on improving the technology that's already there - e.g. bug fixing, enhancements, speed, memory."