Might surpise you, but I actually agree with you, Dale. Especially on given the ancient code based that wasn't designed to interface with the new coding, I think they did wonderfuly to get SR4 stable. And that's not a slap - it's an honest assessment of the coding problems from someone who used to play wih code. That's why I'm not taking Poser 6 apart before it even hits the shelves. I know what kind of mess e-Frontiers inherited. Same time, that "Don't prejudge" crap that people keep spouting cuts both ways. Agree? There is no more basis for the assumption that e-Frontiers wil force Wienberg to pull a habit out of his rat this time than there is to assume that P6 will be a P5 fiasco. However, the skeptics have a lot more weight of experience on their side than the optimists. ;] Especially since a lot of the business model history looks to be repeating itself. There's an easy way to get me out of the discussion: the CL apologists can back the fuck up and let the buyers make up their minds without them running interference for CL. Let CL do their own PR. Let CL make their own announcements, without the forum weasel brigade advance selling it for them. Wait and see what they actually deliver, rather than encuraging people to pre-order on hype. Let them actually show if they've learned anything, and if they're serious about making good on their past fiascos. Let them deliver, or not. Then determine what to do if it's "Not". Don't want to wait for that, get ready to deal with the old wolves like me that don't like seeing the community shafted with the tacit and implict aid of its own. Like I said, Curious Labs can do this without ya'll's help and without my hindance. But if they get the one, you will get the other. And I won't bother with CL much this time - I'll let them wreck themselves: I'll go straight for the Judas Goats. Bank on it. ;)

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell