Supposedly this is foolish, but foolishness is an inconsistent hobgoblin. In any case: Extract: "Might surpise you, but I actually agree with you, Dale. Especially on given the ancient code based that wasn't designed to interface with the new coding, I think they did wonderfuly to get SR4 stable. And that's not a slap - it's an honest assessment of the coding problems from someone who used to play wih code." Comment: Beg pardon, sir, but that's bullshit. That is an expressed opinion from someone who would do it differently -- honest, perhaps, but hardly a fair assessment. While it may not have been intended as a slap, perhaps habit interfered -- it reads terribly. The term backhanded compliment comes to mind. Extract: "Same time, that "Don't prejudge" crap that people keep spouting cuts both ways. Agree?" Comment: not that I matter, but agreed. Note, however, that the "rise of the apologists" is directly contributable to the vociferousness of those who continue to use the "old code", "piss poor people", "incompetent idiots", and similar arguments (all of which are, bluntly, patently obvious to be in error by the fact that the program has somehow defied all reasonable business expectations and continued to both grow in marketshare and move further along a development path. So, in a very real sense, you could be held accountable for the creation of many of these "apologists" simply through the sheer force of your rhetoric. (For reference, however, note that the rise of the "bashers" is in response to old, dead horse, history, and has left a wellspring of "skepticism" that feeds them.) Extract: "There is no more basis for the assumption that e-Frontiers wil force Wienberg to pull a habit out of his rat this time than there is to assume that P6 will be a P5 fiasco." You seem to assume that he has something to do with it. Given that your general posting history indicates a personal animosity towards him (evidenced in the extract), this would put your efforts at discrediting into the "muckraking" section. Muckraking is an important service, mind you. But it also has some limits (extremism being one of them). Extract: "However, the skeptics have a lot more weight of experience on their side than the optimists. ;] Especially since a lot of the business model history looks to be repeating itself." Comment: Skeptics always have more weight -- history is irrelevant. It is easier to doubt (and, apparently, more gleeful). Skepticism, however, is just as applicable to optimism as it is to pessimism, and to claim refuge in it while being, generally, pessimistic is a disservice to the "cause" of skepticism, if you will. A truly skeptical person is going to doubt what is known just as fervently as what is not known. You fail that test, both by example above and in other postings. Optimism requires a greater degree of fortitude and character than pessimism. For the simple reason that it takes more strength to be positive and hopeful in the face of potential loss. Seems to exacerbate the issue. Extract: "There's an easy way to get me out of the discussion: the CL apologists can back the fuck up and let the buyers make up their minds without them running interference for CL. Let CL do their own PR. Let CL make their own announcements, without the forum weasel brigade advance selling it for them. Wait and see what they actually deliver, rather than encuraging people to pre-order on hype. Let them actually show if they've learned anything, and if they're serious about making good on their past fiascos. Let them deliver, or not." Comment: And you are? Other than the administrator and most vocal critic of Several members of Curious Labs, idiocy in action, left wing politics, and the vast bulk of websites (excepting your own, of course) surrounding this program, that is. Being nobody of any importance anywhere within the "poser scene" or whatever it is called, and being a causal observer at best of that, I find that statement to be, well, rather humorous. Chiefly because I have to wonder why folks would want you to stay out of the discussion. I've seen little in the last four years from you alone that warrants any sort of concern beyond the verbal venom you and some of your friends have been known to spout. Venom that is only as worthwhile as the time taken to read it. Aside from that, what you are basically saying is that no one is supposed to be saying anything "positive" about Poser 6 other than Curious Labs, while anyone is free to say whatever they want "negative". Which is not only Not the "American Way", as I understand it, but is also rather uncharacteristically foolish on your part. I would prefer you to propose something much more conducive to actual fairness: A specific forum/post where all the people who want to say something positive can do so right up against the people saying something negative -- a real freeforall, with all the figurative bloodletting and carnage so pleasantly associated with such absurdities. Would be more open, and provide a self professed carnivore such as yourself with plenty of spoils. (I'm led to understand that such a thread would not be possible here, but perhaps over at this www.xfx-3d.com site where your "radio free" thing is. It would at least allow the victims of character assassination from here the opportunity to defend themselves.) People will always defend what they claim. People who are unhappy will always strike at what bugs them. Since we do not live in an agrarian-pastorilist society where some form of bucolic libertarianism might be practiced were it not for the critical flaw of having people there, they will generally do it in a format that is acceptable overall. This appears to be the one for Poser. Rather than acting like some King's Messenger and stopping the discussion, perhaps you should join in without the pessimism and still retaining that healthy skepticism of yours. It might do more good. And it would free you of the "pre-judging" you yourself have already succumbed to due to your pessimism. Fools and their money are soon parted. If it wasn't spent on pre-release versions of what you have essentially called a bloated service release, it would be spent on equally mundane content for said program. Those that are excited about it will be excited. And when someone comes in to rain out their sunny day, they will get snippy. eh. Get over it.