Gareee, PDX = Portland International Airport's call letters (I'm in Portland, Oregon) Jim = My name s = My hand slipped when I was on a BBS before the internet achieved it's wide availability, and I've stuck with the name every since. Maybe I should change it to MegaSponge or HyperNoodle... nah. But now you see why I never tried a different one. randym77: I meant collision self detection in the hair room. Whenever I try to use it, I get a wild mop of hair. Good point on the hair and negative values, that really applied to the cloth room, not the hair room.