thanx for the info...will download winds3d and try it...do have blender and it is very hard to learn and very confusing.... a also loaded a plug in called 'make human' for blender and have not tried it yet....have been trying to morph different characters and still cant quite get the look that i want.....so i will have to try wings and start from scratch...anything to get this character out of my head...lol...but once again thanx for the info..