Yeah, I'd have to agree with you on the lighting thing Crescent. And I have to say that I'm always a bit nervous whenever I'm moving an object in Vue. but yeah, selecting individual body parts or whatever in Vue is WORLDS easier than it is in Bryce. Personally, I prefer the Vue renders, but secretly I wish I could combine these two programs into one super-renderer. In the end, it's not which is the better program, but which is the better program for the INDIVIDUAL using it. One other thing-- I think Vue 4 is coming out soon, but I've not heard a thing about a Bryce 5. Rumor has it that Vue 4 might have the volumetric stuff, if I heard correctly. Mike