PapaBlueMarlin and aeilkema, your objections to my comments are fair, I read them respectfully. I'm aware that my use of "anti" is an oversimplification. I regret that I appeared judgemental, because my reaction was to what I see as habitual judgement of the two mentioned companies by some persons. I won't name names except to say that neither of you are whom I had in mind, and that the person(s) I was thinking of generally have my respect. There are some who are known for a history of objection to all things DAZ or CL, and it gets a little tiresome in excess, that's all. Blocking the free flow of conversation is exactly the opposite of what I'd hope for here. That's why I don't think this thread needs to be moved. It's not my place to be judgemental of others for differing opinions. If I remark on negativity henceforth, I'll try not to paint with a broad brush. Please don't leave, aeilkema, at least not 'cause of l'il old me. :-)