"....Sorry but this oft repeated mantra of "its not the tools its the artist" is all too often loyalists "fanboi" denial about the short comings of their favorite application." Nonsense. It's the mantra of people who are sick to death of other watching them as lower beings because they don't use the latest and most expensive programs. "There are people right now rendering massive scenes in excess of 50 million polygons!!! using vue's new intancing feature and they are not using KRAY supercomputers but mid to high range specced machines one fellow rendered such a scene on his dog assed old 750 MHZ MAC G4." Pffft. I'm far from Rudy's 350 millions, but I do have an image or two with more than that. Like 68 millions, for instance. And I'd bet Bryce with 68 millions behaves better than Vue with 50 million. I know Bryce does better than Cinema in that regard. "so the tools DO matter :-)" No, they don't. Cause if they did, the guy with the dog-assed G4 would have to buy the latest dual-processor Mac. :-)

-- erlik