Howdy Folks, I wanted to wait to post until Sixus1 had a chance to clarify their original statement but I have an appointment that can't wait any longer, so here you go. Since I've been involved with the whole Vicki/Lilin thing since the get-go I convinced DAZ that I should be the one post since I can answer most if not all of the questions & concerns raised so far. Now here's the skinny. 1) There was no reason that Lilin had to be pulled. In fact before the Sixus1 statement was released last night DAZ, and I, were under the impression that we were all still working toward an acceptible solution that would keep the model available. Instead Sixus1 released a statement that was originally a rought draft and was supposed to be reworked. 2) The joint parameters, falloff zones, ect weren't just "kinda close" or "almost the same". Every joint that was checked was an EXACT duplicate... as in copied, out to 3 decimal points. 3) You can take a look at the attached gif to see the "rough body shape" Take the heads off & there's not a whole lot of difference. Bear in mind that Vicki is not only copyrighted but also a trademarked property of DAZ. 4)As I said I've got some real world things to attend to for the next couple of hours but after Les releases the clarifications, I'll be back to answer any addditional questions & deal with some of the misinformation that's been handed out in this thread.