Do you post your art at cgi talk and let them know it's Vue? I like the idea that people can feel free to post their work here without having someone shut them down before they get started. I have absolutely no desire to check out your work because I am put off by your rude comments about other folk's hard work. Not everyone here has been using Vue for 3 years...but all are more than welcome in my opinion to post in the galleries without fear of reprisal from that such is you. Your opinion is welcome, but you make me afraid for all of the budding artists who are just getting their feet wet. That is what Renderosity is all about. Learning from those who have used a program and can point out, constructively, what they might do to make a render better. So all you folks out there who may be thinking it's not worth posting...post it with pride. You made it, and you have every right to share it. Because the day you stop is the day Renderosity falls. Marque