'and to be brutally honest (without naming any names) the reason that a lot of these models have not succeeded - SNIP - is because they arent on the same level of quality' gabriel, I have to agree. Reading dan's post where he mentions the work involved on V Pro, it should be obvious to anyone that making a major figure is now almost beyond the means of individual creators. I'm not saying this is a good thing, but given the commercialisation of the poser market, it was a pretty obvious development. The bar has been raised so high for human figures (mainly by DAZ themselves), that in order to get above it, it's no longer enough to make a figure using traditional methods. Body scans, mapping of physiques, hiring models, and all the other stuff involved, now require a team of people, plus the money and resources to undertake a major project, which not many creators have. My big disappointment is that CL doesn't make a bid in the content market. I broker through DAZ, and strange as it may seem to make a comment like that, I firmly believe that competition is healthy, wherever it comes from. Or perhaps I should say, lack of competition is unhealthy. CL has the money and resources, and if they got into creating content, it would act as a spur to DAZ. (Not that they need one by the looks of it). Just as, sooner or later, Daz Studio will spur CL into making better software too. People like Catherine (Mec4) have raised the bar in textures. She has a full studio setup, she's a good photographer, and she pays the models. Result = extremely high quality, and if you want to compete, you have to match it. Anyway, I'm sorry in a way that individuals are being slowly elbowed out, but if users constantly expect more and more realism, the market will provide it. That's entertainment, folks! mac