@Shonner Why to encourage someone to "leave" only because he/she posted his/her opinion. I would be disappointed if Robert would leave Renderosity. Don't you think it would be wise to make him share his work here as well? Maybe he can be convinced to live in both world. Art is no religion, so why not paricipate here at Renderiosiy as well as in CGTALK? Does it always have to be like "This is better than that?" @creed2003 I would like to see if your are incooperate some ideas in your linked picture. It would be nice to see if and that there are improvements even if it still looks like kitch ;- ) No really, it could be a good lessons for other hobby artist to see improvement. Because usually people starting their project very ambitious (by being inspired by really good examples) and then they are dissapointed by their own results. The reason is that they have no comparance to other work to see how slowly and painfull the progress can be (believe me, I know what I speak of. And the result are posting that others call (rightfully?) kitch. Mike