Arcady wrote: "On the note on predators. As someone who works in criminal justice, the actual numbers of these kinds of people is -DOWN-. In fact numbers are dropping fast from historic highs, and have been doing so for far longer than the current conservative swing in society. In fact the trend for all violent crime has been going down since the middle ages..." Dig further into your UCR's (you said you worked in the Criminal Justice Field) Here's interesting tidbits on violent crime: On aggravated assault rate: That rate in America has gone from around 60 per 100,000 in 1957 to over 440 per 100,000 by the middle of this decade. (1957 is when the FBI started tracking the stats). The violent crime rate is at a phenomenally high level, and this is true not just in America but worldwide. In Canada, per capita assaults increased almost fivefold between 1964 and 1993. According to Interpol, between 1977 and 1993 the per capita assault rate increased nearly fivefold in Norway and Greece, and in Australia and New Zealand it increased approximately fourfold. During the same period it tripled in Sweden, and approximately doubled in: Belgium, Denmark, England-Wales, France, Hungary, Netherlands, and Scotland. In India during this period the per capita murder rate doubled. In Mexico and Brazil violent crime is also skyrocketing, and in Japan juvenile violent crime went up 30 percent in 1997 alone. Now, I didnt just make this stuff up (you can't) and it certainly isn't a "righty" view. Having said that, here's what is different now from then The advancement of medical technology of today is saving victims, preventing them from dying. If not for that, the stats would be higher. The listed "serious bodily injury" cases are also lessening --only because of advancements in med tech. Plus, add the fact that we have the more folks incarcerated than any other industrialized nation, or those would also make these numbers higher yet. Not sure where you get that crime is down everywhere... So in a nutshell, the violent crime numbers are waaay higher. The trend is to look at a 5 or 10 year run which shows nothing. "crime is down 1 percent from last year" What they fail to mention is that (for a random non-specific example) it is up 400 percent from 30 years ago. I noted: "Sexual predators are released everyday from incarcaration, most re-offend. Some sleazy liberal defense attory stood up for their "rights" and thes rest is an unfortuneate history. This happend over and over. The "everday" part was an admitted exaggeration to make a point.. however, they are getting released often, and are re-offending. Heck, google em in your own state what you will find is a smaller percentage of registered sex offenders than what really exists as many do not report in like they are required to by law. You said: "This is a wonderful fiction of the right... As for standing up for rights... That's not sleazy, that ensuring the freedoms and liberties we value as a free society. It's what I personally did when I went to war for this country, and it's what I do now working in the criminal justice system. If we don't stand up for rights and freedom, people like you will strip us of all of them in the name of security. Someone has to be about freedom in all of this" When I went into the military I swore to defend and protect the Constitution of the United States of America from all enemies, foreign and domestic. I for one, value that pledge still, even if you don't. Few things and not any arguments here, only clarifications from me here On my take or view of "sleazy defense attorney's" I say this, and I base it on personal life experiences. I stand by my original statement and opinion. To me, a slick willie attorney that gets off scott free, a guilty predator or violent offender is no better than the offender themselves. I cannot buy into the notion that by not giving these people their "freedoms" is somehow unconstitutional and feel they do not deserve "rights". To defend their rights to me anyways (will explain why in a sec) is to defend their actions I respectfully disagree with the notion that "This is a wonderful fiction of the right"... Never has been, I do not believe. You obviously haven't had a child or a loved one be a victim~ I have. If you did, I cannot imagine you not feeling differently about predator's rights like "people like me". My views are derived from life experiences as all of ours are in the human psyche. Yours are the same I'm sure, for different reasons. That's OK On defending the CONSTITUTION you state: " I for one, value that pledge still, even if you don't." Not sure where you get that I dont feel the same you do. I do. And will defend it right by your side if need be. As a vet (stated waaaay above) I do not mix this with making excuses for violent offenders, or defending them in anyway. Most violent offenders still have free will, which humans do. They chose the path they took, and then do not deviate thereafter. Now~ none of this is an attack of any kind. You have a right to opinion and I can respect that I just mentioned earlier that I did not have stats at the time, now I do. Also, I want to note that I am with you all the way defending our constitution, not against it. I will note that I am not extreme "right" there's a difference. Is there such a thing as a Liberal Conservative? (LOL)