sbertram, LOL Redno ate my homework! I was posting to you and got the error, I swear I am not making it up, "Your SQL has disappeared." Lots of Renderosity server blips today with everyone logging on....anyway: I hope my post to you was not too harsh, that was not my intention. I agree with you: P4 engine should NOT slow down with these upgrades. Your comparison of the engine between Poser4 and Poser5 seems more rigorous than mine, I am going to test it specifically as soon as I can find time; I still have Poser 4 installed. Meanwhile, I don't think a Poser6 run of the P4 engine makes any sense right now because of the memeory clog problem they are working on. ::::: Opera :::::