I am aware of all the solutions to rendering this scene that I was complaining about and I have managed to render it in Poser 5. The point is still that without any intervention from me it did finaly render in DAZ studio but, to get it to render in Poser I have to resort to all kinds of tricks. I would have expected Poser 6 to handle it. I realy don't care if it took 7 days to render because data has to be swaped in and out of memory, or what ever it had to do to make it work. The problem is that Poser6 once again just died a silent death without a hint. Poser 6 certainly has inprovements. The hair room impressed me. The walk designer is still hopless though. The larger undockable library is nice. Tree structures that stay open and do not have to be re-traversed every time is nicer. so the list can continue endlessly. For every positive there is still one or more negatives. I am not just talking about heavy technical stuff, I am talking about every day common sense. I use to program I have a pretty good idea what goes into it. I personaly believe if I can not program it, it does not exist. Every program I see causes me to spend time trying to figure out how it is done and how I would have attempted it. Every thing I see makes me try to figure out how would one get a computer to do the same. Much of the things we finaly have on computers, I foresaw as 'n 18 year old boy in 1981.