wolf, [my full blast rejoinder NOT posted here] frankly i regret posting that shot at blitter now, not because I 'take it back' content-wise, but because this thread has turned into a valuable discussion of other matters. I don't wish to ruin it further in a fight with you. Let's not escalate here. Want to go out in the street in front of the saloon and settle it there? Regretfully, Renderosity took down the OT forum "the den" recently. ::::: Opera :::::