Carolly, It is not as though our bitching about software bloat is gonna make CL come and wipe P6 from your drive. What we are talkng about here is software bloat that keeps people from upgrading... I think many people enjoy the small footprint and speed of P4 and are entirely satisfied with the features... we idely passing the time wishing that as well as the release of monster P6 that there was a P4 upgrade that focused on cleaning up and optimizing code rather than adding features that require serious platform upgrade we can't afford and are used only by the most sophisticated artist (such as yourself)... With P4 we are talking about a totaly legitimate and functional software that is not out of date but is very suitable for many users and doesn't harm the cutting edge user. What would be neat is a Poser 6 Lite for consumer users similar to PhotoshopLE... although, I can well understand the a market analysis my have proved that to be totaly unfeasible comercially. Yes, I know about Poser Artist but I don't believe it includes any refining or rewriting of code. I often use PhotoshopLE not because I don't know how to use CS (I have taught at University on Photoshop and Painter for artists) but because it is faster to load and faster to run on the crappy PC that happens to be all I can afford and very often it has all the features I need for a project, some projects that are my livelyhood. Some experts delight in using every new feature on the latest version, some delight in pushing old software to its performance limits. 3Dream and I got terrific results from P2 hacking P2 even though we were using ProPack and Millenium 2 at the time, its just something that apeals to some people, I can do better painting my 370k Aprentice or my 1.3Mb ArtRAge any day than with my Painter which I don't think I have run in sixmonths. Anyway, I guess it upset a lot of people when bored guys on the corner wished outload that Fords came in other colors than black... after all, what was to keep them from going out and buying a bucket of paint? BTW, as an early (prehistoric) programer (I strated with punchcard "jobs") I am suspecious of anycode bigger than 1Mb. Yyou would be amazed how small and stable AND powerfull code by independent deveopers can be. You might be amused to know that I always use animal hide primer and hand ground pigments when I paint anything aside from sketches (eggs and drying oils make good binders, spit is for blending, and you a good way of making a brush is to burry part of a stick or bamboo until the micro organisms break down the cellulose). I do not weave my own linen, I know you were probably going there, but even in the old days someone might kill the cariboo and someone else work the bones into a little carving. I also live in a house I did not build and wear clothes I did not make. The issue is... which would you prefer for a great piece of softwear, that it get cleaned up and fixed or that it just grow and grow and grow... my little word proceesor has more features than I'll probably ever find out about and certainl consumes a lot of memory but I don't think it has improved my writing one iota from when I used WriteNow4 (350Kb and the most functional WP ever). I respect the people who have responded to this thread as I do you. Certainly the court of affluent opinion and commercial common sense favour your view. I'll just crawl back in my whol and keep quite ... and hope maybe I don't have to buy a new computer to run that P6 box set I pre-ordered. I am sure I will love its new features tremendously but it won't mean I'll be less nostaligic for the time when it was users pushing the limit of the software with their inventivnes and the scene wasn't so comercial. I'll never get over MorphWorld 2.0 coming down, the real end of an era. I wonder if Poser 7 have that famous "make art" button I am so desperate for? No offence, just joking :)