Unless you are in the business of selling software... why in hell do you care about educating people as to what can be done within a program alone? If I see a figure in a Terragen or Bryce render... do I care if that figure came from Poser? Nope. I care if it is a decently composed and lit image. "Is it art" is a different question from "did he make this with charcoal that he collected himself from candle soot". You might note that the only Poser image I have here doesn't have a signature (but does have a frame)... do I scream "no postwork!" even though it would have been MUCH faster to paint the fingers where I wanted them? Or paint the swirly web stuff in the background rather than scanning, cleaning, tiling, filtering and then slapping the texture on a one-sided square? I don't even bother not to mention it. Whether there is postwork or not is absolutely totally completely unimportant. I can certainly paint (have been a professional artist for decades), but I really don't care if anybody else does a pure render or not. That is THEIR business. My art is MY business. And I'm not interested in selling any software package, so offering up a pure example just for purity's sake is about as appealing as visiting the dentist. This whole issue is sheep and goats... and how to exclude others who might possibly contaminate your vision by being in the same room. :ptui: Carolly