Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL


Subject: New Gallery PLEASE (and the postwork issue again)

StealthWorks opened this issue on Mar 31, 2005 ยท 71 posts


Qualien posted Fri, 01 April 2005 at 3:26 PM

WARNING: Way too Long-winded Post
I remember reading the earlier thread about a no-postwork gallery, and dismissing it at the time as "purism". But IMHO stealth has made an a good case here. However, is it convincing?

"I knew it wouldn't take long before someone COMPLETELY mis-interpreted the thread!!!!"
"Why are so many of you having such difficulty with this concept?" oilscum
Some people may be reacting emotionally because they feel criticized or threatened, like someone is telling them that their postwork is evil, and they should not be doing it, and they should be stopped from doing it.

I know that Hauksdottir knows more than me about Poser and posts stuff always worth reading. I am a wolfe359 fan (has been on my list of fave artists for a long time). I am far closer to being an "expert" with Photoshop than with Poser. But I think some missed the point that the thread is not about whether postwork is good or evil, or whether or not it can or cannot enhance an image (no one has been arguing that it cannot).

"If some people feel strongly enough about 'no postwork' images, what's stopping them from simply putting that in their descriptions? Why would this take a separate gallery? I don't get it." linkdink

Yes, and people could put "Vue" and "Poser" and "Fractal" in their descriptions. So why do they need gallery categories at all?'' Maybe Elizabyte is right that these categories are antiquated, but that is a little OT, isn't it? Categories are here, should Non-Post have one or not is the question.

"Ansel Adams baked many of his prints in the microwave..." hauksdottir
Maybe we need a new category "Photography and Microwave".

DEFINITION of "NO Postwork":
"...need to accept that different people will draw the lines in slightly different places." eirian

"...like many others I can see it as being a headache to define what is or isn't post-work." johan99

"no postwork, period, not even sigs, nothing should be done after clicking the "render" button now you say you want a sig in your pic? 3d apps can EASILY (atleast for me and i suck ahah) have the sig there before clicking render" - anxcon

"Pray tell me what is the difference between "fixing the exposure" and altering the saturation? Changing the hue range? Upping the contrast? Correcting the gamma?"

Vague definitions are a conern in many endeavors (what' is 'mood' or even '3D', what's a fractal and what isn't?. But if you defing 'no-postwork' as 'render only' then a no post gallery has a very, very clear defintion. A no-postwork image is a render.

As anxcom said, if you want a signature, create a 3D object as your signature. I would not categorize a watermark as postwork but rather legal protection. A watermark should be invisible, so not a concern at all, just a red herring in the argument.

The only practical problem I see might be Rosity's restrictions on gallery image size. You can use PShop tricks (blurring tool, levels, etc) to cut down on the amount of info in an image to reduce the size of it to fit restrictions. Most Poser renders of quality are going to be awful fat.

"The reason it won't work is that there's no way we can be certain whether or not they postworked their image. Some of these artists are so good that you can't tell, one way or the other. Any enforcement measures you might put in place would only serve to alienate and cause bitter arguments and accusations." mateo_sancarlos
"$$$hire$$ computer forensic specialist to examine every upload to check for 'inconsistent bit map data indicative of post manipulation'???"
wolf359

Do they use forensic experts to determine if every image in the Fractal catetory was made using fractal software? Anyway, if it ever came to the point of having to prove it (say in a contest with real prizes) a test:

  1. Save the pz3.
  2. Copy it (and any unique geometries and textures) to a computer which (legally) has the required geometries and textures (V3, whatever).
  3. Load the pz3.
  4. Click 'Render'.
    The image produced should be identical.

"I think what you guys want is a 'render only gallery'. This gallery could be for all softwares, and be only about rendering..." caravaggio
"Nonetheless, a VERY intriguing idea. If you can't get it accepted here, there are always other avenues." oilscum
"...perhaps an added 'genre' option..." eirian
"...here is a thread devoted to Poser and no postwork. there are other apps, you know....and there are issues about postwork for all of them. it's kind of rude to strictly limit this issue to poser." Poppi
"...Why not start your own up, web pages are very easy to make..." sinisterpink

A MODEST PROPOSAL
Maybe this concept deserves more than a gallery, or even just webpages (I have created lots of webpages from scratch HTML, but a gallery would be a little more complicated). Somebody should start a whole website "nopostwork.com". As has been noted in this thread, the concept is as good for Vue and Carrara as for Poser. (Just checked and he domain name "nopostwork.com" is available, as I write this.) If you build it, I will come.