Found it flipped it, and playing around right now. So far, no crashing, but so far I haven't tried anything major, but I'll let you know. Right now I'm having too much fun with the lights and the whole AO deal. grins P6 let's me play with already created characters it seems; it has no problem loading any of my old complete pz3s. It just crashes when I try to build a character. Maybe I have to keep P4 around to build them and then just use them in P6. Maybe P4 is just crashing P6 to postpone it's retirement. Not sure. Anyway, I'm gonna go test the whole, building a character theory. And thanks so much for all the help! ~Jade