Sounds like the old 'render to another window' was a feature whose time had NOT passed! Stealth, you are very frustrated and my smpathies. I hope the render finishes okay, and hope you post it for us to see. About the 'order of magnitude slower' tho....1) remember you are rendering in a wounded app...there is a known problem and the solution has not yet appeared and 2) if you applied new features such as IBL or AO or ? then comparing speed to P5 without those features is not fair; they cost. I never render anything so complex, being an animator, but let me ask this...before you go to final render at full size, what test render do you do and how long does the test render take? ::::: Opera :::::