Sorry if I misrepresented anything guys. In my memory Don suggested the model challenge but that was awhile ago, and since turning 40 my memory is not what it once was. I do remember what Don's first model contribution was, but I can't say it here at Renderosity. ;-) I'm glad to hear that you've kept it going, badco. Very cool of you. Hm, I have an idea that might help ... I'll drop by the NG later tonight. Dean aka "Dean West" at the NG.