My turn. First, I started this thread, not Ringo. Some might think we are one in the same (no one has ever seen both of us in the same room at the same time), but we are not, Ringo is better looking. Sailor_ed, you are right that Eovia was there to get some buzz going on their new modeler. Marketing is a valid part of any good business plan. Bad marketing can kill a good product just as fast as bad code. It was not the only reason they were there. The head of Carrara development, Charles B. was there and he is not part of the European Amapi-Hexagon development team. That chat session was during his work hours (8am west coast time) - they have only 5 people on the C dev team (its in the chat log). Charles writes code, so to have him sitting there for almost 2 hours not writing code must have cost them something. In a small company with limited resources time is the most valuable asset and there is never enough of it. The invitation to tell "Eovia what you really think" was to to tell them face to face in live chat, not here in this forum. That chat session was very lightly moderated - no pre-screening of any of the questions. Anyone who showed up could ask anything they wanted to Eovia. They put some structure into the chat to cover one topic at a time and did not give out any info on Carrara 5. One guy did get kicked & banned after Thomas asked him to slow down and wait until other questions were answered. I don't see the logic in blaming Eovia for not answering questions that did not get asked. They put the resources out there, if no one stepped up and asked the things you wanted answered is that their fault? I put Ringo's yahoo post up here to see if anyone on this forum who has real issues with Eovia would log in and try to hold their feet to the fire. I got my answer. I don't know how many other companies put their sales and development teams on the spot, live, in an effort to interact with their users but I don't see it as a negative thing at all. If it was going to be all PR they only needed Bob Shawn's post before the chat implied that it would be a waste of time with no real info coming out of it. While it was not as good as Rhino's open beta we did get a look at the gui, some of the new tools in action, a timeframe for release, and a very rough price range. That's more pre-release info than I have seen on anything coming out of Eovia before. Shonner maybe they are trying to do a better job with communication. wayne k guam usa