uh uh bad trips brother.... call me lazy but I think you've reached good results will Bryce.. so why learn other (heretics) programs? ;P. sketchup looks interesting, I've tried it and sounds funny and, moreover, I've always loved toonshading. Last render had a movie-istic reality, could be used for star wars VII (if Han Solo is still able to get his Millenium falcon out of there!). Have a nice work and a nice research. vasq p.s. how is the other render going? ;)