Setting the shaders in poser works as long as everything converts properly. I'm working with reflection and bumps that do not translate well. (and Cararra's shader nodes are powerful and predictable I'd rather use them) Being a bit of a perfectionist, it's tough to keep fumbling through a list of unnamed parametric mappings with no refernce for what part it's mapped to with without changing the shader and looking to see what group changes. I tried converting the object to a vertex object, but the shaders don't seem to translate then at all, and it severs the link to the poser object. Anyone know the ropes here? Thanks! John