Thanks, Andreas! i really wanted to do this one right, but it sure was challenging! i'm not totally pleased with it, but i did my best. we HAD to go. we were late at our friends' house, and we just had to call it a night. kemal and i will go back there several times this summer. hopefully i'll take a better shot then! yeah, you're right...in that 2nd one the lights should be cloned out. i've been working on images like crazy and just was too lazy to do it. just wanted to show this from a different perspective. thanks again, Andreas!!!