I got paint shop pro 6.02 and 8.0, and photoshop 7.0 :P I think I made a good work around.. using the really tinny dot and just making a buncg of back and forth squiggles, then smoothed.. It gave me just enough of a 'chopy' water effect for it to look right.. Although there still is the issue with the moon being darker then what it's reflecting on the water.. (made a new thread about that issue) .....and the mountain pushed all the way back that turned gray even with all the settings to make it be black . might take it out and just do that in photoshop..