I have Poser 4, bought it years ago to do 3D models to use as reference for figure sculpture. Have always used either a live model (very expensive) or a photo for reference (not enough information in just one view). Got really excited when I found Poser by accident and bought it on the spot. Was discouraged when the standard models would not do shoulder elevations. Dont really like computers, maybe got discouraged too soon. I mean the model can not be posed with the shoulder elevated at the collarbone so the shoulder is closer to the ear, like shrugging. Maybe I have not played with the program enough but I could not come up with a shrug pose. Just rotating the arms up without elevating the shoulder looks stiff and unrealistic. Is there a realistic 3rd party female or male model (not anime or cartoon) that does this? Was looking through the store and found a model named Elle that looks like she can do shoulder elevation. I do not mind paying for a good model. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks, Mark