XENOPHONZ: "A more apt comparison would be if you were standing on the street corner in New York, and a cop told you to 'shut up'. ... Respond to a cop by saying 'Or what?'......and you might find out."

HA! Never met me, have you? Telling a cop to shut the f*^#k up wouldn't give me a second's thought. Especially if I thought his words/behavior were unjustified. If I thought the cop was disrespecting me without warrant, yeah, I'd say it. Now if I knew I was wrong, if I KNEW I was out of line and gave him reason -- a RIGHT -- to say it? Well, I'd shut up. Of course, I'd do that if the other guy was a plumber. A badge isn't a free pass with me.

I grew up in the South Bronx, amigo. Remind me to tell you about the night this yellow cab made an illegal left turn and tore off my bumper. Better yet, let my wife tell you. Or the two cops who were there.

XENOPHONZ: "But when a cop (or other authority figure) comes along and tells the bully to behave himself -- the reaction can be quite similar to that of a three-year-old being told to settle down."

Hmmm. I suppose. But I'm not sure how the analogy applies to Render, its threads and how we're discussing them here.

Are you saying Render's a cop, the, for lack of a better word, complainers are bullies and when Render exerts authority, you get a lot of whining?

I'm not trying to be a wise guy, X. I really am curious.

Still, I'll admit you make some points. In truth, tho I started this topic I'm not sure how I feel either way. [What Render does just isn't important enough to my day...] I do lament that a general topic forum can be marginalized. It just seems ironic. It likes being told you can eat what you want and then seeing there's only baloney on the table.

By the way, you didn't mention which figure you prefer. What're you? Some kinda rebel or something?

bobasaur: "His intent wouldn't even matter - if what he said was perceived (even by someone other than Jesse) as sexual harassment he could be penalized."

Yes, I suppose that's so. But I really haven't come across any of that yet. This irrational bullying or name calling. A total disregard for others. All I've seen so far are threads that're discussing a particular issue and someone somewhere deciding okay, you're not going to talk about that anymore. And in those threads there weren't -- IMHO -- any members getting out of hand or being offensive.

Yes there is a line that shouldn't be crossed. But I haven't seen anyone come anywhere near it (in the threads I've seen locked). Being abusive and insulting and insensitive? Harrassment? Yes, those elements should be dealt with immediately. But deciding, oh, no, you're not having this conversation? That's a different line of thought, bobasaur. But as I said, tho I've been rendering near seven years now, I've spent little real time in the forums. Only over the last month or so. Perhaps mods can see something I can't. Perhaps in Pengy's thread they saw eventually someone would call someone a doody-head and to prevent that chose to still the voices altogether.

So, yes, I understand that free speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want. But it doesn't mean I'll tell what you can say either.

kmw