Len - most of what went into Bryce 5 had already been coded by MC before the breakup. What Corel added that was new was metaballs and trees and did the debug of the MC code. I do agree with you about Corel though. I got no beef at all with the Bryce team at Corel, they really where a dedicated bunch - it's the top management and marketing at Corel that bugged the heck out of me.