I fel fucking ancient when I'm typing this, but the OT started out pretty decent. What disrupted it, and speaking as one of the former disruptive elements in the OT (It's where I got my warnings, one, amongst others for calling Geep a hypocritical creep or something along those lines), basically is/was politics. Or rather, the pro vs anti Bush debates. I did see some imagery come out of that as well ;-) Thing is - if you invite people to come express themselves via imagery but won't allow them to do so in the fora, you can't say it's an art community, you may say it's a commercial art community - the rules of play for commercial art are pretty different than for generic, "canonical art" I can understand about the 3 year old tantrum mentality. I think we all do. However - if the flamers don't lose sleep over it, why should rendo ? You can't say it disrupts shopping, because you know as well as I that a lot of shoppers never visit the forums - just the store and the galleries. We're not even arguing ToS - play nice or else is fine - as long as nice isn't basic Disney sweetness. Case in point - you could argue that Xeno isn't being respectful of other members when he derails thread after thread, as Poppi pointed out. How come that doesnt fall in under the 3 year old mentality when it disrupts a convo people are having ? Again - I think a gloves off forum with monitoring for illegal activities (warez questions, underage pr0n) but no stepping in would solve a lot of the grumblings. face it - most of the debacles these days are n00bs throwing hissyfits. Let them loose among the ancients, and they'll teach 'em forum manners real quick ;-) ~S