Haven't read through the whole thread, its gotten way to long and I'm late for a dinner date. I would like to say one thing though. The Tavern was NEVER a place for flaming and fighting while IB ran it. At least I never saw any of that. More of a place to calm down when some nitwit was flaming elsewhere. He ran the Bar with a flair that many a mod could learn from. I wonder why he was able to do so while others seem to have such difficulty? As has been said before. Many other sites have OT forums. Some are wide open to most anything, some allow far less, but there doesn't seem to be much of a problem HAVING OT forums anywhere but here. Curious that eh? Hmmmmm I wonder if it could have anything to do with Mods that are so quick on the trigger finger they suspend members for appologizing, or outright ban them for calling someone a "dufflebag"? Nah, that couldn't be it. :)