Kaweckie Said: We can put some screws and let the seat in a permanent down position and problem solved. Yeah but then we'd get bitched at for pissing on the seat all the time. It's a no win situation! We lift those seats out of courtesy so you have a dry seat to sit on but we don't get credit for that one either! Zenman, believe me when I say, gay men aren't entirely free from female manipulations either. We have our mothers, grandmothers, Sisters, cousins and Aunts and that's just in our families! There are also co-workers and female friends and aquaintences that have to be placated as well.