I'm amazed! Thanks to the sugestions and Carrara's PDF help files I was able to make the shape in no time flat! I created two ovals on the same plane one with a larger diameter, duplicated both, moved and rotated one set, then lofted all 4, detached the inner polygons and deleted them, and presto!! WOW, Lofting is fantastic, I've been playing with it all night. I've been intimated by the vertex modler for the longest time, but I'm not gonna let that hold me back any longer. Thanks.