Back to the spline modeler, I was able to almosst recreate it using the spline modler, but I can't get the ends non-parallel,is it possible to rotate the plane that holds the last cross-section? I can kinda do it with the sprial function, specifing the number of turns to less than 1, say .25, but it adds a curve that I don't want and I can't get rid of it. I'm not sure why I'm still interested in doing it the spline modeler, since the vertex method worked so well, maybe I'm just manic?