Well, after speaking to a couple more polite people on the phone starting with a new number one of you sent me, I obtained the phone number of a person at eF/CL who was in fact able to give me my serial number. He also said he was still in the process of sending people numbers by e-mail. A very nice guy and if you IM me I will give you his number as I don't think that etiquette allows the posting of a phone number on the net without prior consent. Good luck PhilC... oh. Thanks for your contribution to the community... I bought some old P4 clothes from you the other day and your clothes maker looks brilliant.