I agree Antthony, but my belief is that the Pro Pack is just a really big add on (not cheap either), and that Curious Labs is working on P5 separatly. I hope. As for Bryce. Corel, is at least doing something. I know that haven't abandoned it ... yet. They came out with the "carbonized" beta demo for the Mac, so they have done something. (Nothing different than in B4, just runs on Mac OS X.) So we just sit and wait, as we always do. James