ghelmer, you say "shadows aren't "on" anyway..." - does that mean you tried to adjust the shadow bias? If yes, that was not what maxxxmodelz was talking about. He was talking about the Ambient Occlusion bias (hit the 'Scene AO Options' button on the light properties tab). He's right, you might have some self shadowing going on there. Another thing to try on that dialog is to play with the Distance parameter (try lowering it first). Uli