yeah, you get my drift. I've got Wings but haven't started anything in it because I haven't gotten comfortable with Bryce enought to take on another. I'll download Drac's tut for when that day comes. I modeled a pocket watch and chain in Bryce awhile back and thought about submitting it to freebies because I think it's that good and I wanted to give something back to everyone; so I can understand the true reasons some do this. It is the goodness of their hearts. But now I'm wondering if it would be the right thing. More musings.. ... at this point it might be better to show image and wireframe and just say "look what Bryce can do with a lot of zooming in and bolean work.