FranOnTheEdge-- Always remember that any gods we create, even if it is in our own mind, will always be a "g" and not a "G" I hope. I will salute and offer mucho praise to those here who have the Bryce software nailed and have forgotten more about it's use than I will ever hope to learn, I will bow to only one God. Sorry, I don't want this most excellent discussion to turn religious. I agree to what you I think you are implying. "Pedistals" yes, (no gods) and there is always an avenue and room for someone else to rise to a pedistal no matter if it started as freebie posing. That's one of the reasons I started this thread. For those already on the pedistals I say, "show the path" Did that make sense?