hi les, I'm using 'parent' statements. I don't think smartparent would change much. Adding 2 figures like this isn't a thing I would normally do myself, but I was testing and trying to break things. Well, I suceeded there. As I said, it's no big deal. I resolved the issue by making 10 unique lights with different properties. That way, the users should never need 2 of the same light. But I'll put a large warning in the help file anyway. But someone, somewhere will do it. One other thing, though I doubt if it could make a difference, is that these were all saved out of P6. But of course, P4 just ignores what it doesn't understand. Mind you, P6 adds some real crap to files. I can see poser bloat becoming a major problem. Every figure now has a 'CenterofMassPropGoal' actor and body part. It's supposed to help with IK, and even if figures don't need it, P6 automatically adds it the second you open anything. My figures don't even have weld statements, never mind IK. Not to mention that P6 adds shadow cam materials, complete with all the shaders and all sorts of other weird rubbish. The cr2 is becoming a jungle. Oh well, thanks for the reply. cheers mac