Displacement maps are certainly interesting! But they only work in Poser 5/6 firefly, right? Dante, You should check it out Stonemason's Freebie..The Gargoyle head that uses displacement maps It's amazing! http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=2269354 I think it's a good idea to experiment with displacemet. imho, Apollo needs more details in several places like the back, hands, and feet. Vein maps would be great too. Perhaps P4 could use the displacement map as a bump map. bB