"Hey just for that xoconostle I'll have to confiscate your Vue 5 also..LOL..." I'd love to help but I still haven't upgraded to 5. :-) I'm trying to discipline myself. I bought Bryce 5, Shade 7, and Poser 6 in a short period of time, so the rule is no more upgrades or new apps until I learn more about Shade. However, xenophonz has Vue 5 Pro. I'm sure he'd be happy to donate it. ;-)