Why in the world would someone need a "starter flame" to figure out an application as mind-numbingly simple as Apophysis in the first place??? And why in the world would all these people post these files and open themselves up to having their hard work stolen or misused??? Vanity? For sure! ..."see how much BETTER than you I am and how NICE I am to help a DUMMY like YOU make something half-way decent"!..."psst, btw I posted today - did you V?...hint, hint...."old pal"... Or maybe they really are just nice... IMO, these files, though maybe well intentioned, and the very limited types and scripts possible in Apop are largely responsible for the grinding lack of originality in many flame images these days. Everyone either uses the same script or starts at the same points - no wonder they all look the same and now everyone's buggin'! Its not very hard if you put in the time to render random batches and move the triangles yourself and probably many users of this program have made flames on their own very like these before. I certainly have. They are certainly nice but not unique. It would be like if everybody used the exact same formula with UF, FracEx or FractInt or the same holon in XD. Like Deagol said - "build them yourself". You'd get a much better sense of accomplishment that way, non? Btw, T, "plagiarism" isn't the word you're looking for. It's called "copyright infringement" and it's a violation of the TOS and federal and international law - yet they just lightly slapped the hand of FRAUD for blatant and repeated image theft. Where is the outrage from the community over this??? And from her friends whom she played for fools by lying to them about these being her own creations??? Though, I agree maybe Mr. P gave up his copyright when he posted the par's for free use....and the flames do look changed at least a little bit and I'm not saying there was or wasn't infringement in the cases mentioned above in this thread...