Wabe, the reason I'm focusing on the cloud aspect of "volumetric" is because E-On lists it specifically as a feature. From the V5I feature list: "Volumetric clouds, lights, materials (visible rays, with optional dust)." If they had just said "volumetric materials", I would not be surprised that in order to get volumetric clouds you have to use object primitives with volumeteric materials. But in fact this "volumetreic clouds" feature does exist in the V5I package. You can turn the cloud material in a cloud plane/object into a volumetric materal, and many of the preset volumetric atmospheres have this setup, so it seems clear this is an intended use. It's just that there's nothing volumetric about the results as far as I can tell. So unless anyone has information to the contrary, I consider the feature list misleading. And that is a bit disappointing, especially considering V5I is otherwise so promising. Not everyone will find this particular feature important, but to me it is vital to realism, so it's just about a deal breaker. I'll continue to play with the demo as E-On kindly allows a generous 60 day test period, but I'm afraid that, unless I discover some hidden and dramatic realism booster for atmospheres, I'll have to hope instead that TG2's instancing system lives up to the power, flexibility and ease of use of Vue's, or that V6I with true volumetric clouds and improved atmospherics comes out by the time TG2 is released in 2006. Thanks for the info everyone. :) - Oshyan